maruta_us (![[info]](http://l-stat.livejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif){kind=small} maruta_us) wrote,@ 2007-10-04 08:03:00 |
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"I'd be happy to see prosecution by the Department of Justice"
I didn't see anyone report that quote from Erik Prince, the CEO of Blackwater. I think he's referring to the former employee who shot the guard of an Iraqi Vice-President; square that with Priti Patel, the attorney for Human Rights First quoted in the previous entry, who reportedly said there are "at least 20 cases of CIA agents and civilians involved in prisoner abuse [that] have been referred to the Justice Department for prosecution and nothing has happened." The hearings on Tuesday map out the U.S. actuarial table calculating the value of human life in Iraq.
Below are unedited hearing notes. I focused on the architecture of questions by people in Congress, I think, because both in my work on prison labor and on the School of the Americas, the role of corporations come up (UNICOR and Core Processes, Inc./BCPI, Ltd., respectively). Answers to the questions are in brackets.
In a quick look at BCPI's website this morning, it's interesting to see that they list CACI and Titan Group as partners (I don't know if that's the same Titan being sued in DC district court). BCPI has an office in Baghdad, and staff both in the Office of the Department of Defense's Inspector General for Iraq and the DOD's Contracting Office for Iraq. How convenient! Thursday "the Committee will hold a hearing to evaluate the status of corruption in the Iraqi government and whether U.S. government efforts to address this continuing problem have been adequate."
Tuesday hearing notes on Blackwater
House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform
http://oversight.house.gov/
Members of the Committee
http://oversight.house.gov/about/member
Burton: complete investigation
3743 contractors
77 involving weapons
54000 attacks; 6000/month
since 2004, 42 killed
re-evaluate contractor's procedures
no rush to judgment
Cummings: shadow military forces that are not accountable to the U.S. government or anyone else
consider whether undermines mission in Iraq or foreign relations
Issa: This is not about Blackwater. We don't want the military guarding the State Department or embassies
Kucinich: killing innocent Iraqis?
Mica: we tried to discredit the President, the Ambassador, the
trying to discredit; he wants to adjourn committee. Rejected.
ERIK PRINCE
DOJ requested refrain from public comment n the 9/16 incident.
DOS/FBI investigating
less than 1-3% incidents result in ??
WAXMAN
We contract out what the government/military should do.
Are we paying more and getting less?
11/27/04: Blackwater plane crash in Afghanistan; 3 active duty military personnel.
responsible or cowboys?
Blackwater violated its own policies? [1000 missions]
Blackwater failed to do various things?
Blackwater knowingly hired people with background problems?
Why should taxpayers be paying your company millions of dollars?
[We were hired to do this.]
Just got a new contract for $92 million?
DAVIS
How are you paid?
Cost-plus?
Monetary penalties?
[In Iraq, I work for DOS.]
Who oversees?
[works for the chief security officer]
When Blackwater terminates an employee, Blackwater receives the notice.
MALONEY
Let me ask you about a fired employee: drunk guy, shot guard to the Iraqi vice-president.
There are no charges against him in the Iraqi justice system?
The Department of Justice? Looking into it 9 months later.
U.S. judicial system? [No.]
Other than firing him, any sanction against him? [No, fired, turned case over to the Department of Justice office in Baghdad.]
If he lived in the U.S., he would be arrested and tried under criminal courts. In the military, he would be disciplined and courtmartialed. If you work for Blackwater, you pay $1000 and get shipped out of the country. In U.S., if he committed a crime, you don't pack him out and ship him out of the country in two days.
BURTON
Rules of engagament?
CUMMINGS
Is Blackwater helping or hurting?
Can Iraqis distinguish between U.S. military and Blackwater?
[We fired him; we fired him; we can't detain him... I'd be happy to see prosecution by the Department of Justice.]
MICA
We welcome it; we encourage the Department of Justice to prosecute the Blackwater employee.
Blackwater bought a ticket for him to return to the U.S.
reliability
accountability (MEJA): any time a U.S. contractor is abroad, they can be sued in the U.S.
cost
KUCINICH
How did Blackwater get its contracts?
[no-bid contract]
off the General Services Administration contract?
Did you talk to the White House re. the contract?
Congress re. the contract?
Did DeVos talk to the White House re. the contract?
Do you think as a taxpayer, no-bid contract was fair?
[all his contracts have been no-bid]
Who were you talking to at the State Department?
WAXMAN
Did GSA come to you? Did they ask you to put these operations together? You offered services. There's companies for some of these services.
SHAYS
I was a conscientious objector during Vietnam and a member of the Peace Corps. We're behind a desk, never been shot at. Company reputation. Protecting dignataries vs. civilians.
How many missions did you protect?
How many of your people were killed?
DAVIS
[Erik Prince says we have never killed an innocent civilian]
failed to report the shooting?
[DOS "random death of innocent Iraqi"]
Why did Blackwater cover it up?
[Fired for not reporting]
Why wasn't report provided to the committee?
[DOS/DOD pays for accidental death]
How was this man's life valued at $5000?
How many payments has Blackwater made?
[Don't know. EP will tell him.]
Instead of putting someone on trial, you pay the family and get the shooter out of the country.
PLATTS
Q: Criminal investigation by the DOS/DOJ?
[We will fully participate.]
WAXMAN
Q: People in the U.S. military don't appreciate Blackwater. You're not answerable to the U.S. military?
[No, DOS.]
Q: ??
[Year and a half ago, EP spoke at the National War College.]
Q: ??
[170 or so security companies in Iraq.]
Less safe troops?
Less safe diplomats?
If Blackwater goes, do we need more troops in Iraq?
What do we do if we don't have enough troops there?
[Get more troops.]
It's costing the U.S. more money to contract with Blackwater.
DAVIS
I went to basic training at Fort Benning, etc.
Q: Troops are not trained to protect civilians?
WAXMAN
Q: Blackwater recruits from ex-military?
[Special Ops.]
TIERNEY
Getting clients from point A to point B. Contractors focus only on the contract.
DUNCAN
Blackwater makes more than Gen. Petraeus?
Lavish, exorbitantly.
"Fiscal conservatives should be the ones most horrified by this kind of contracting."
What percentage of Prince's contracts come from the federal government?
[90%]
What are the companies under Prince Group Holdings?
[He didn't detail them all; mentioned a manufacturing company that makes pieces and parts for cars/industrial work; competes with Asia.]
CLAY
Iraqi civilian?
Taxpayers paying 6 times the cost of a U.S. soldier?
Specialized training at the expense of the federal government?
DOD Secretary Gates expressed concerns that contractors are poaching from the military?
Pentagon drafting non-compete clauses?
Administration steeped in hypocrisy.
TUCKER
reliability?
accountability?
cost?
WATSON
Do you believe in continuing to privatize?
I TOOK A LUNCH BREAK.
WELCH
How much did you get paid last year?
[I don't know. $1 million.]
I billion in contracts; 100 million in profit margin; your answer 10%.
MURPHY
You won't disclose your profit?
[We won't go into full financials.]
You don't believe it's in the best interest of your company to disclose this?
[I don't know that answer.]
I find it hard to believe that a CEO doesn't know his annual profit rate.
How many third country nationals do you hire? 1/3 of your personnel are third-country?
LYNCH
Loss of accountability when a government function is subcontracted out. I find it hard to criticize these employees because I am in their debt. If I have a problem criticizing Blackwater, what about the State Department? You protect them, but they are responsible for your oversight. State Department said put these civilian deaths behind us. Pay to get this behind us. Incident reports don't track us. $250k or $100k: claim by U.S. official that people are trying to get killed by our guys to get paid. Shouldn't there be an investigation by an Independent Inspector General instead of the State Department?
NORTON
High purpose of a volunteer army?
[You employ people as independent contractors.]
You don't have to provide benefits? Make social security payments?
[Other security companies have people as employees.]
Does Blackwater hire independent contractors to avoid legal responsibility?
[No.]
Responsibility for contractors? It is simply unclear after a full days' hearing whether this company is subject to law. I believe we need an investigation to clarify what law if any these companies should be beholden to.
SCHAKOWSKY
I will be introducing legislation to phase out private security companies. Gary Jackson, past president of Blackwater USA, hired Chileans trained under Pinochet. Correct?
[Yes.]
questions about particular Chilean; did not get spelling of the name.
Q: Did Chileans ever get a security clearance?
Q: Jobs fair in Bucharest. Hire people trained under Milosevic?
Q: Would you know if the guys you hired would have a criminal record, human rights abuses, etc.
Q: Chile has decided not to participate in war on Iraq. Do you have qualms about hiring Chileans?
[Philippines doesn't allow people to go to Iraq.]
WAXMAN
Blackwater is an unprecedented experiment. Issues of cost; military objectives. Never had anything of this magnitude where so much of the military is privatized.
PRINCE DEPARTS; THREE STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIALS TESTIFY.
WAXMAN
Christmas Eve 2006. Blackwater flew the shooter out of Iraq within 36 hours. Why did the State Department facilitate this?
A: DOJ reviewing it for prosecution. Inappropriate to prejudge.
Why did the State Department respond this way?
A: No reason for him to stay.
Ambassador Kennedy said they should be kept in county.
A: A private military contractor did it.
State Department spokesman said we are scrupulous. I see a cover-up.
A: Murky what laws are available for prosecution.
Q: You didn't know it was a criminal violation? Even the director of the trade association for private security contractors says Blackwater has a client who will support them no matter what they do. No accountability.
A: State Department isn't the prosecution.
DAVIS
Q:
[18 months-2 years to train]
Q:
[DOJ guidelines for deadly use-of-force. Might be a mission for the U.S. Army.]
Q: Which incidents has the State Department investigated?
[We will provide a copy of every investigation we have done.]
Q: Would it be more effective to use the U.S. Army?
[I think they could do it.]
Q: How was the contract awarded?
[from Coalition Provisional Authority to U.S. Embassy, we moved contracting to sole-sourcing. Officials signed it; had to make. procurement, legal counsel. We did not like doing a sole-source contract.]
Q: ??
[SWAT experience. Training course by the DOS.]
WATSON
She was an ambassador. I want the DOS to come talk to me about an incident I witnessed of abuse by a private security contractor.
Q: If the Army received training in protecting installatons, do you prefer the Army?
[The Army could do it.]
Q: If they were Army personnel, whose authority would they be under?
[doesn't know]
COOPER
Q: ??
[Footage is outrageous. Private security contractor.]
Q: John Negroponte testified on review. 12/28/05 incident: Blackwater convoy smashed into 18 different cars on way to Ministry of Oil. When Blackwater was asked about this event, they lied.
[We will provide reports immediately. Some requests pending for 6 months. Number of requests made 6 days ago.]
Q: Blackwater: how many have hired a Diplomatic Security Service? Have you requested the amount of money you need to train people there?
ISSA
Q: 1000 people related to Dept. of State.
A: 1 year rotation.
Q: What's the total staffing?
A: 1450.
Q: Ambassador Satterfield, I know you from Lebanon. The DOS contracts itself in Lebanon with career RSOs: 8 ??; 450 guards and 75 guards [inside/outside]. This model would not be unreasonable in DOS. Here is the reform question: Do you hire more indigenous people and bring in less of Blackwater?
Q: You can terminate Blackwater any time you want.
[We'd rather not have expatriate contractors; implement the Beirut Lebanon model.]
LYNCH
Was an investigation ever conducted? You're kidding me. June 2005.
[I'll respond in writing. I want to give you a full investigation.]
Yes or no? Was there an investigation?
You don't know whether there was an investigation?
WAXMAN
We asked for investigative documents. We've had a better response from Blackwater than the DOS. Some requests were made in March, June.
LYNCH
DOS and Blackwater work hand in hand. The closeness of that relationship. The DOS is not going to do an objective review. Shouldn't we have a Special Inspector General?
Blackwater has to be responsive to you; you have to be responsive to us.
SCHAKOWSKY
Pay people off, and forget it. You're allowing these private contractors to hurt our mission in Iraq. I have heard the Blackwater talking points.
[6000 attacks/mo. in Iraq]
Under CPA Order 17, contractors have immunity from Iraqi legal system. Now you say you're going to review. Isn't it clear there's a problem?
[Order 17 isn't limited to contractors; it covers soldiers, diplomats, contractors...]
Do you think it's a problem that only 2 of the number of contractors in Iraq have been charged with anything?
[It's a global issue, broader than Iraq.]
I didn't see anyone report that quote from Erik Prince, the CEO of Blackwater. I think he's referring to the former employee who shot the guard of an Iraqi Vice-President; square that with Priti Patel, the attorney for Human Rights First quoted in the previous entry, who reportedly said there are "at least 20 cases of CIA agents and civilians involved in prisoner abuse [that] have been referred to the Justice Department for prosecution and nothing has happened." The hearings on Tuesday map out the U.S. actuarial table calculating the value of human life in Iraq.
Below are unedited hearing notes. I focused on the architecture of questions by people in Congress, I think, because both in my work on prison labor and on the School of the Americas, the role of corporations come up (UNICOR and Core Processes, Inc./BCPI, Ltd., respectively). Answers to the questions are in brackets.
In a quick look at BCPI's website this morning, it's interesting to see that they list CACI and Titan Group as partners (I don't know if that's the same Titan being sued in DC district court). BCPI has an office in Baghdad, and staff both in the Office of the Department of Defense's Inspector General for Iraq and the DOD's Contracting Office for Iraq. How convenient! Thursday "the Committee will hold a hearing to evaluate the status of corruption in the Iraqi government and whether U.S. government efforts to address this continuing problem have been adequate."
Tuesday hearing notes on Blackwater
House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform
http://oversight.house.gov/
Members of the Committee
http://oversight.house.gov/about/member
Burton: complete investigation
3743 contractors
77 involving weapons
54000 attacks; 6000/month
since 2004, 42 killed
re-evaluate contractor's procedures
no rush to judgment
Cummings: shadow military forces that are not accountable to the U.S. government or anyone else
consider whether undermines mission in Iraq or foreign relations
Issa: This is not about Blackwater. We don't want the military guarding the State Department or embassies
Kucinich: killing innocent Iraqis?
Mica: we tried to discredit the President, the Ambassador, the
trying to discredit; he wants to adjourn committee. Rejected.
ERIK PRINCE
DOJ requested refrain from public comment n the 9/16 incident.
DOS/FBI investigating
less than 1-3% incidents result in ??
WAXMAN
We contract out what the government/military should do.
Are we paying more and getting less?
11/27/04: Blackwater plane crash in Afghanistan; 3 active duty military personnel.
responsible or cowboys?
Blackwater violated its own policies? [1000 missions]
Blackwater failed to do various things?
Blackwater knowingly hired people with background problems?
Why should taxpayers be paying your company millions of dollars?
[We were hired to do this.]
Just got a new contract for $92 million?
DAVIS
How are you paid?
Cost-plus?
Monetary penalties?
[In Iraq, I work for DOS.]
Who oversees?
[works for the chief security officer]
When Blackwater terminates an employee, Blackwater receives the notice.
MALONEY
Let me ask you about a fired employee: drunk guy, shot guard to the Iraqi vice-president.
There are no charges against him in the Iraqi justice system?
The Department of Justice? Looking into it 9 months later.
U.S. judicial system? [No.]
Other than firing him, any sanction against him? [No, fired, turned case over to the Department of Justice office in Baghdad.]
If he lived in the U.S., he would be arrested and tried under criminal courts. In the military, he would be disciplined and courtmartialed. If you work for Blackwater, you pay $1000 and get shipped out of the country. In U.S., if he committed a crime, you don't pack him out and ship him out of the country in two days.
BURTON
Rules of engagament?
CUMMINGS
Is Blackwater helping or hurting?
Can Iraqis distinguish between U.S. military and Blackwater?
[We fired him; we fired him; we can't detain him... I'd be happy to see prosecution by the Department of Justice.]
MICA
We welcome it; we encourage the Department of Justice to prosecute the Blackwater employee.
Blackwater bought a ticket for him to return to the U.S.
reliability
accountability (MEJA): any time a U.S. contractor is abroad, they can be sued in the U.S.
cost
KUCINICH
How did Blackwater get its contracts?
[no-bid contract]
off the General Services Administration contract?
Did you talk to the White House re. the contract?
Congress re. the contract?
Did DeVos talk to the White House re. the contract?
Do you think as a taxpayer, no-bid contract was fair?
[all his contracts have been no-bid]
Who were you talking to at the State Department?
WAXMAN
Did GSA come to you? Did they ask you to put these operations together? You offered services. There's companies for some of these services.
SHAYS
I was a conscientious objector during Vietnam and a member of the Peace Corps. We're behind a desk, never been shot at. Company reputation. Protecting dignataries vs. civilians.
How many missions did you protect?
How many of your people were killed?
DAVIS
[Erik Prince says we have never killed an innocent civilian]
failed to report the shooting?
[DOS "random death of innocent Iraqi"]
Why did Blackwater cover it up?
[Fired for not reporting]
Why wasn't report provided to the committee?
[DOS/DOD pays for accidental death]
How was this man's life valued at $5000?
How many payments has Blackwater made?
[Don't know. EP will tell him.]
Instead of putting someone on trial, you pay the family and get the shooter out of the country.
PLATTS
Q: Criminal investigation by the DOS/DOJ?
[We will fully participate.]
WAXMAN
Q: People in the U.S. military don't appreciate Blackwater. You're not answerable to the U.S. military?
[No, DOS.]
Q: ??
[Year and a half ago, EP spoke at the National War College.]
Q: ??
[170 or so security companies in Iraq.]
Less safe troops?
Less safe diplomats?
If Blackwater goes, do we need more troops in Iraq?
What do we do if we don't have enough troops there?
[Get more troops.]
It's costing the U.S. more money to contract with Blackwater.
DAVIS
I went to basic training at Fort Benning, etc.
Q: Troops are not trained to protect civilians?
WAXMAN
Q: Blackwater recruits from ex-military?
[Special Ops.]
TIERNEY
Getting clients from point A to point B. Contractors focus only on the contract.
DUNCAN
Blackwater makes more than Gen. Petraeus?
Lavish, exorbitantly.
"Fiscal conservatives should be the ones most horrified by this kind of contracting."
What percentage of Prince's contracts come from the federal government?
[90%]
What are the companies under Prince Group Holdings?
[He didn't detail them all; mentioned a manufacturing company that makes pieces and parts for cars/industrial work; competes with Asia.]
CLAY
Iraqi civilian?
Taxpayers paying 6 times the cost of a U.S. soldier?
Specialized training at the expense of the federal government?
DOD Secretary Gates expressed concerns that contractors are poaching from the military?
Pentagon drafting non-compete clauses?
Administration steeped in hypocrisy.
TUCKER
reliability?
accountability?
cost?
WATSON
Do you believe in continuing to privatize?
I TOOK A LUNCH BREAK.
WELCH
How much did you get paid last year?
[I don't know. $1 million.]
I billion in contracts; 100 million in profit margin; your answer 10%.
MURPHY
You won't disclose your profit?
[We won't go into full financials.]
You don't believe it's in the best interest of your company to disclose this?
[I don't know that answer.]
I find it hard to believe that a CEO doesn't know his annual profit rate.
How many third country nationals do you hire? 1/3 of your personnel are third-country?
LYNCH
Loss of accountability when a government function is subcontracted out. I find it hard to criticize these employees because I am in their debt. If I have a problem criticizing Blackwater, what about the State Department? You protect them, but they are responsible for your oversight. State Department said put these civilian deaths behind us. Pay to get this behind us. Incident reports don't track us. $250k or $100k: claim by U.S. official that people are trying to get killed by our guys to get paid. Shouldn't there be an investigation by an Independent Inspector General instead of the State Department?
NORTON
High purpose of a volunteer army?
[You employ people as independent contractors.]
You don't have to provide benefits? Make social security payments?
[Other security companies have people as employees.]
Does Blackwater hire independent contractors to avoid legal responsibility?
[No.]
Responsibility for contractors? It is simply unclear after a full days' hearing whether this company is subject to law. I believe we need an investigation to clarify what law if any these companies should be beholden to.
SCHAKOWSKY
I will be introducing legislation to phase out private security companies. Gary Jackson, past president of Blackwater USA, hired Chileans trained under Pinochet. Correct?
[Yes.]
questions about particular Chilean; did not get spelling of the name.
Q: Did Chileans ever get a security clearance?
Q: Jobs fair in Bucharest. Hire people trained under Milosevic?
Q: Would you know if the guys you hired would have a criminal record, human rights abuses, etc.
Q: Chile has decided not to participate in war on Iraq. Do you have qualms about hiring Chileans?
[Philippines doesn't allow people to go to Iraq.]
WAXMAN
Blackwater is an unprecedented experiment. Issues of cost; military objectives. Never had anything of this magnitude where so much of the military is privatized.
PRINCE DEPARTS; THREE STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIALS TESTIFY.
WAXMAN
Christmas Eve 2006. Blackwater flew the shooter out of Iraq within 36 hours. Why did the State Department facilitate this?
A: DOJ reviewing it for prosecution. Inappropriate to prejudge.
Why did the State Department respond this way?
A: No reason for him to stay.
Ambassador Kennedy said they should be kept in county.
A: A private military contractor did it.
State Department spokesman said we are scrupulous. I see a cover-up.
A: Murky what laws are available for prosecution.
Q: You didn't know it was a criminal violation? Even the director of the trade association for private security contractors says Blackwater has a client who will support them no matter what they do. No accountability.
A: State Department isn't the prosecution.
DAVIS
Q:
[18 months-2 years to train]
Q:
[DOJ guidelines for deadly use-of-force. Might be a mission for the U.S. Army.]
Q: Which incidents has the State Department investigated?
[We will provide a copy of every investigation we have done.]
Q: Would it be more effective to use the U.S. Army?
[I think they could do it.]
Q: How was the contract awarded?
[from Coalition Provisional Authority to U.S. Embassy, we moved contracting to sole-sourcing. Officials signed it; had to make. procurement, legal counsel. We did not like doing a sole-source contract.]
Q: ??
[SWAT experience. Training course by the DOS.]
WATSON
She was an ambassador. I want the DOS to come talk to me about an incident I witnessed of abuse by a private security contractor.
Q: If the Army received training in protecting installatons, do you prefer the Army?
[The Army could do it.]
Q: If they were Army personnel, whose authority would they be under?
[doesn't know]
COOPER
Q: ??
[Footage is outrageous. Private security contractor.]
Q: John Negroponte testified on review. 12/28/05 incident: Blackwater convoy smashed into 18 different cars on way to Ministry of Oil. When Blackwater was asked about this event, they lied.
[We will provide reports immediately. Some requests pending for 6 months. Number of requests made 6 days ago.]
Q: Blackwater: how many have hired a Diplomatic Security Service? Have you requested the amount of money you need to train people there?
ISSA
Q: 1000 people related to Dept. of State.
A: 1 year rotation.
Q: What's the total staffing?
A: 1450.
Q: Ambassador Satterfield, I know you from Lebanon. The DOS contracts itself in Lebanon with career RSOs: 8 ??; 450 guards and 75 guards [inside/outside]. This model would not be unreasonable in DOS. Here is the reform question: Do you hire more indigenous people and bring in less of Blackwater?
Q: You can terminate Blackwater any time you want.
[We'd rather not have expatriate contractors; implement the Beirut Lebanon model.]
LYNCH
Was an investigation ever conducted? You're kidding me. June 2005.
[I'll respond in writing. I want to give you a full investigation.]
Yes or no? Was there an investigation?
You don't know whether there was an investigation?
WAXMAN
We asked for investigative documents. We've had a better response from Blackwater than the DOS. Some requests were made in March, June.
LYNCH
DOS and Blackwater work hand in hand. The closeness of that relationship. The DOS is not going to do an objective review. Shouldn't we have a Special Inspector General?
Blackwater has to be responsive to you; you have to be responsive to us.
SCHAKOWSKY
Pay people off, and forget it. You're allowing these private contractors to hurt our mission in Iraq. I have heard the Blackwater talking points.
[6000 attacks/mo. in Iraq]
Under CPA Order 17, contractors have immunity from Iraqi legal system. Now you say you're going to review. Isn't it clear there's a problem?
[Order 17 isn't limited to contractors; it covers soldiers, diplomats, contractors...]
Do you think it's a problem that only 2 of the number of contractors in Iraq have been charged with anything?
[It's a global issue, broader than Iraq.]
